Posts by Cold Steel

10

Inconsistency involving Lot and Abraham

by Ireneus in

when god informed of his intention of destroying the wicked inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah abraham made extensive questioning, cross-questioning and bargaining with god till he gets satisfied.

(genesis 18:16-33) however, when god informed of his intention of murdering abraham’s own only-begotten, innocent son, he simply obeys without any questionings [which he should naturally have done more intensely than he did in the case of unrelated wicked people].. god too acted strangely!

no introduction of the subject with sufficient reasons.

Cold Steel

Critics tend to read into the Bible what they want, irrespective of both tradition and scholarship. And this is a subject that has been brought up repeatedly with the same typical conclusions: God is a horrible entity that clearly is bloodthirsty, unreasonable with a propensity to murder the innocent.

Little will come of it here except to get it out of your system. You ignore everything (ancient and modern) that’s been written on it and your mind is made up.

Sacrifice is (and was during the time of Abraham) a tradition that pointed the way to Christ’s atoning sacrifice. The sacrifice of an animal would have no meaning to an all-powerful deity unless it was a teaching device to benefit the children of men. The animals sacrificed had to be perfect, without blemish, to represent the perfect nature of the Son of God. And God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his only begotten son as a way of pointing to the time when Christ would be offered up as a sacrifice for sin.

“God too acted strangely!” you conclude. “No introduction of the subject with sufficient reasons.” But how do you know this? We only have what was passed down. In other accounts, Abraham reasons that God would either prevent him from sacrificing his son or that He would resurrect Isaac in the event he had to go through with it. Abraham knew that human sacrifice had been condemned by God, so he had good reason to conclude this. Either way, the agony suffered by Abraham was what Abraham had to wrestle with, and it teaches us that the Atonement of Christ also was a huge matter with the Father, and one in which the Father suffered greatly.

In one ancient document, we have this exchange between the Father and the Messiah:

And He (the Father) heaved sighs over him, saying, ‘If I put breath into this [man], he must suffer many pains.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be an advocate for him.’ And My Father said unto Me, ‘If I put breath into him, My beloved Son, Thou wilt be obliged to go down into the world, and to suffer many pains for him before Thou shalt have redeemed him, and made him to come back to his primal state.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be his advocate, and I will go down into the world, and will fulfil Thy command.’”
There are souls that have been put away with thee under My throne, and it is their sins which will bend thee down under a yoke of iron and make thee like a calf whose eyes grow dim with suffering, and will choke thy spirit as with a yoke; because of the sins of these souls thy tongue will cleave to the roof of my mouth. Art thou willing to endure such things? … The Messiah will say: Master of the universe, with joy in my soul and gladness in my heart I take this suffering upon myself…. Such are the things I desire, and for these I am ready to take upon myself [whatever Thou decreest]. (Discourse on the Abbaton)

The question of why Jesus had to die is another question altogether. When Jesus asked the Father to remove the “bitter cup,” the Father inexplicably declined. Islam asks, if God is truly all powerful, why could He not wave the requirement of blood for sin? This is a more profound question than why he commanded the sacrifice of Isaac. We only know that God’s power is predicated on laws and concepts of justice and mercy that we don’t yet presently comprehend.

16

Let's compare the sayings of Jesus and the modern day Governing Body

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

imagine yourself still sitting at a kingdom hall meeting and turn to the book of mark 7: 21-23. the sayings of jesus are really profound.

the scripture makes you think, reflect, enters your heart and produces results.. today, you have your modern day governing body ( who supposedly are the mouthpiece for jesus and jehovah and provide spiritual food for the 8 million followers).

if jehovah really sends his holy spirit upon these seven men, is this silly and petty message they can come up with?

Cold Steel

When religions take root, they're generally intended to guide people in the words of Jesus or other prophets such as Moses and Muhammad. Some of the writings such as the Talmud, the hadiths of Muhammad and the commentaries are designed to lead people to a better understanding of their religion.

But when uninspired and largely uneducated men tend to go beyond the scriptures and add their own witless, inane and mindless thoughts to them simply because people have given them authority to do so, you get drivel. And if the men have enough authority, calling it drivel can get one in serious trouble because it constitutes rebellion.

If you were to sit down with an elder and say, "Look, those fellas in Brooklyn put out a lot of booklets and pamphlets, but where, really, did they get their authority from Jehovah? And why should we pay the same type of respect for what they have to say as the ancient church did the apostles? I mean, Peter I know, and Paul I know, but who are they? Who ordained them?

There are always those who are willing to step up to the plate, but these guys seemed to have chosen themselves.

2

The JW Study Bible and The Audio RNWT

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i am guessing but based on what i have noted over 2 years of low to inactivity.. everytime a new book is started on the clam a new video pops up giving info on the book (my area btw so i can say all of them are wrong).

a new audio version is put out of that book at the same time.

(this is ok. the newer audio version can't hold a candle to the other 4 readers for the 1984 version, but at least it's semi-dramatized).

Cold Steel

-= ANNOUNCEMENT =-

Apple announced today that it has developed a breast
implant that can store and play music. The revolutionary
new iTit will retail from $499 to $699, depending on cup
and speaker size. This is considered a major social
breakthrough, because women are frequently
complaining about men staring at their breasts...
and not listening to them.

14

no...No...NOOO...JW's are not a cult!

by FedUpJW in

just read this over on jw talk:.

will we be willing to leave unbelieving mates and unresponsive kids behind when given direction on what to do???

what about grandkids who fall under their parents who are not witnesses???

Cold Steel

Just how is this instruction going to come?

How will the Governing Body be advised what to say to the masses? Will an angel appear to them? Will they hear a voice? They say that they are not inspired the way the original apostles were; that they don't receive revelation, but how, then, will they know how to direct the people?

9

Dumbstruck!

by Lost in the fog in

i am absolutely dumbstruck and lost for words.

one of the elders who criticised me over my use of social media rang me up to ask how i was doing.

after the usual blah-blah-blah i asked him if he had attended the recent elders one day school.

Cold Steel

Lost In the Fog » After the usual blah-blah-blah I asked him if he had attended the recent elders one day school. He said that he had, and how marvelous it had been. Then he said..."Elders these days are so warm and inviting. We are not spiritual policemen looking into everything the publishers are doing."

I wish you had said, "Why do you say that? ... I mean, I'm not questioning what you're saying. I'm just wondering if there was something that happened at the Elder's School that made you say that?" I would'a loved to have heard the answer. It must have been something that happened at the school that caused him to say that.

VW.org » If they could, some elders would be in your bedroom to see if you are doing it in the missionary position.

In the JW.org it's called the "Publisher" position.

32

Is Trump the President of Jerusalem too?

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

your thoughts...how is it that trump can dictate what goes on in other countries?

can anyone from another country come here and tell us what to do...trump is now the president of the world now, uh?.

i'm not really savvy regarding politics but i'm no dummy either...what the heck is going on in the world.... again, any thoughts ?

Cold Steel

NEWSFLASH...It didn't start with Trump. Every U.S. President has pretty much thought of themselves as world leaders. By moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, we're recognizing the legitimacy of the Jewish state. In my view, this is something we should have done years ago.

23

Why "Most high"?

by Doug Mason in

if there were only one god, why do we encounter the expression, "most high god"?.

is this not indicative of polytheism, and of levels (or degrees) of god-ness?.

doug .

Cold Steel

The first references to God in the Bible are polytheistic. The word for God is elohim, the plural form of God. Thus, the plural references in Genesis. "Man has become as one of us," and it even suggests there's a female element to God in that the Gods created man in their image, "male and female."

But how is God one? How can he say he knows of no other? (See Isaiah 44)

When Jesus prayed to the Father concerning the Twelve, he said, ...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE." This is how the Gods are one. They're one in purpose. But how many GODS are there? We know there's the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, but is that it? Is there a MOTHER in Heaven? And are their others?

We have the singular word FAMILY, but there may be five or more members. Astrophysicists tell us that our universe contains 100-200 billion galaxies. And there may be that many (or more) universes. To say that God is one of a kind and that he has no peers doesn't sound reasonable. And to say God created Earth in seven days also shows that the creation process had to take time. Seven "days" (or eras) is stated, and if there's a single God that can do anything, why didn't He utter a word and create it with the merest thought? The answer is, He can't. Although he's God, He builds using matter, and it takes him time. Otherwise, it wouldn't have taken time to create the Earth.

7

Position on blood idolatrous?

by Jehovah lol in

i just had this thought in my other thread.. jehovah witnesses refuse blood transfusions because they believe blood to be the sacred symbol of life.

that's the primary reason, the medical justifications are simply ad hoc excuses.

couldn't it be said that their willingness to give their lives for the sanctity of the symbol of life is idolatrous?

Cold Steel

The argument they put forth is that receiving blood in a medical procedure is the same as drinking it. Blood is the life, and receiving life is immaterial in how it's done. I don't know what the position of the WTBTS is on receiving one's own blood. I know that President Trump gives his own blood so that it can be preserved in the event he needs it in an emergency. (This was started after Reagan was shot.) My guess is that the GB would say that the prohibition on drinking blood would include drinking one's own blood. Thus, no deal.

Does anyone know if the GB allows medical procedures if one has preserved their own blood in advance? Also, if someone in a moment of weakness okays the use of blood to save a beloved family member, is there forgiveness, or are they DF'ed?

2

Bible adds to confusion

by venus in

when we become confused, we would naturally look to god’s guidance.

see what happens if we turn to the bible.. .

1) noah became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.

Cold Steel

There is no answer because you're looking in the wrong places. The Bible does not contain a commentary on itself, thus we have theology courses that examine the scriptures in light of their historical settings. (As opposed to the JWs, who tend to view the scriptures in the context of their own world view.)

For example, looking at your first example regarding the curse of Noah:

Bergsma and Hahn...argue that maternal incest makes the most sense given the limited evidence. For one, Lev. 18:7-8, which is cited to support paternal incest, equates “father’s nakedness” with the intercourse with the father’s wife:
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness. (the NRSV is even more explicit, translating v. 7 as “You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother”; see also Lev. 18:14, 16; 20:11, 20, 21, for other references to a man’s nakedness meaning his wife’s nakedness)
Maternal incest was so vilified in the ancient world because it threatened the patriarchal structure of a family or clan, which would suggest that Ham was attempting to usurp power in his family. It would explain why the text mentions Ham telling his brothers what he had done. There are several examples of sons seeking to replace their fathers by claiming their wife or wives in the Bible and in the ancient Near East (but there are no examples of paternal incest as a means to seize power). Bergsma and Hahn also offer other smaller pieces of evidence for their argument, but this is the crux.
Perhaps the most interesting part of their theory is that it explains why Noah cursed Canaan and not Ham. If Canaan was the offspring, not of Ham’s own wife, but of his father’s wife, that would explain Noah’s wrath. It would also suggest a possible explanation for the specific references in vv. 18 and 22, which both specifically note that Ham is the father of Canaan, while neglecting to mention Ham’s other children or the offspring of Japheth or Shem. Perhaps the author of Gen. 9 is seeking not only to explain the origins of the curse on Canaan, but also how Canaan came to be in the first place.

2) “‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death,” God told Moses. (Leviticus 20:1, 9) Then why Jesus was crucified instead of Satan who presented God as a liar to Adam and Eve. Why? No answer.

Actually, this one is answered in scripture. Jesus was unjustly put to death by the Jews, which placed them under condemnation and caused them to be dispersed to the heathen nations by the Romans. (See Ezekiel 39:23-24, 26) Satan has already been judged and condemned by God, and at the conclusion of the Millennium will be cast into Outer Darkness with those who followed him. And Jesus already has been exalted and sits on the right hand of the Father. The scriptures also are clear that Jesus came into the world to take upon himself, willingly, the sins of the world and to be unjustly slain, thereby being mandkind's Savior and Redeemer.

3) To the important question ‘Does the human spirit rises upward and the spirit of the animal go down into the earth?’ Bible itself answers “Who knows?” (Ecclesiastes 3:21)

The book of Ecclesiastes was said to be written by Solomon, who was a king, not a prophet. And his book is a philosophical work, not an eschatological one. Solomon married heathen women who led him to sin against the God of Israel and to erect heathen altars. And Ecclesiastes was written in his final days, when he was a bitter old man. Unfortunately, the Adventists used his writings to attempt to show that man does not have a spirit that survives death. But the early Christians clearly believed that man has an immortal spirit. Jesus, when he was crucified, went and preached to those who were dead. Peter writes:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but [made alive] by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

...Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:5-6)

How could Jesus preach to the dead -- the spirits in prison -- if they ceased to exist? That's why Jesus told the malefactor, “Verily I say into you, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.” The Adventists say the comma was misplaced, and that he was saying, “I'm telling you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” But nowhere else in the Bible, or in any other ancient document from any culture, have they shown that that idiom was ever used. Jesus certainly never used it, nor any of the prophets for that matter. “I'm telling you today” was not a recognized figure of speech.

The Bible never specifically says animals have spirits. Catholics say no. Most Protestants say yes. If spirits animate the flesh in man, why not animals? They live like people and are subject to death like people. Their bodies appear bereft of life when they die, so why not? That the Bible is silent on the issue means nothing. The Bible is silent on many things, but seeing how God put the proper care for animals into the law, to me, is significant.

9

What Do You Think A CIA Or NSA Security File On The Watchtower And Tract Society And It's Governing Body Would Say?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i'm sure that a top secret security clearance not very high up the chain of command would show a ton of information, .

i mean everything that happens on the internet and on computers i'm sure is assessable to the us intelligence community, why would the government not pass up an opportunity to spy on it's population and run all internet data through homeland security to protect it's interest both home and abroad, realistically thinking that is.. so with this in mind what would a highly classified report look like?

.

Cold Steel

JW.Org/About Us » Any donations that are forwarded to the branch offices of Jehovah’s Witnesses are used to relieve victims of natural disasters, to support our missionaries and traveling ministers, to help construct our houses of worship in developing countries, and to print and ship Bibles and other Christian publications.

This was news to me. In an article about how the Organization finances missionary work, I read the above. Perhaps the CIA knows how the Governing Body relieves victims of natural disasters since I've never heard of them doing these things.